@iulian
Nu stiu daca am mai scris ca am pierdut un mesaj si am luat-o de la capat.
Audi nu are nevoie de LSD pe osii daca are EDL. Acel comparativ nu reprezinta nimic, deoarece tehnologiile sunt diferite. Acelasi lucru este valabil si la BMW

Comparison with other types of differentials

Primul exemplu de diferential de pe Subaru, postat de f1anatic
Other means are also known for modifying the operative connection between drive axles to provide for the transfer of additional torque to the drive axles collectively. For example, many limited-slip differentials provide for preloading friction clutches to oppose the transfer of torque between drive axles. This frictional pre-load represents a particular minimum magnitude of resistance which must be overcome to permit any relative rotation between drive axles which may interfere with the operation of anti-lock braking systems. Also, since frictional forces are continually active to resist differentiation, the friction clutches tend to wear, resulting in a deterioration of intended differential performance.

da, dar aici e vorba de diferentialul central...

In contrast to the limited-slip's continuous magnitude of frictional resistance to differentiation, the torque biasing characteristic of the Torsen differential provides for a maximum ratio of torque distributions between drive axles. For instance, as the amount of torque being conveyed by the Torsen differential decreases, the amount of resistance to differentiation also decreases. That is, even though the bias ratio remains relatively constant, a proportional division of a lower magnitude of torque being conveyed by the differential results in a smaller torque difference between drive axles. In braking situations where little or no torque is being conveyed by the differential, a four to one apportionment of torque between drive axles amounts to little or no torque difference between drive axles. Thus, the Torsen differential will not support any appreciable torque 'wind-up' between drive axles during braking and so does not interfere with the operation of anti-lock braking systems.

Al doilea tip de diferential LSD de pe Subaru, din nou Torsen este mai performant

Another known approach to modifying the operative connection between drive axles is to provide for resisting differentiation as a function of the speed difference between drive axles. It has long been appreciated that undesirable wheel slip is associated with very high rates of differentiation. Differentials have been designed using fluid shear friction, which respond to increased rates of differentiation by increasing fluid shear frictional resistance to differentiation. The obvious problem with such 'speed sensitive' differentials is that undesirable wheel slip has already occurred well in advance of its detection. Also, the fluid shear friction designs generally rely on the changes in fluid temperature associated with high differential shear rates to increase resistance to differentiation. However, similar temperature changes may be associated with extended periods of desirable differentiation, or may be influenced by changes in ambient temperature, so that resistance to differentiation may vary throughout ordinary conditions of vehicle use.

The bias ratio characteristic of the Torsen differential instantly reacts to unequal traction conditions by delivering an increased amount of torque to the drive wheel having better traction before the other drive wheel exceeds the limit of traction available to that wheel. The bias ratio characteristic also remains substantially constant over a wide range of torque conveyed by the differential, and is not sensitive to changes in ambient temperature or conditions of vehicle use.

Am inteles acum. Eu nu sunt asa sigur. LSD-urile cu VC sunt mai lente in functionare (roata trebuie sa patineze). In cazul electronicii (torsen precum si Haldex - desi nu e cu adevarat permanent AWD) viteza de reactie este mult mai mare. Blocarea nu se realizeaza neaprat total (depinde in ce masura pierde cuplul). Si la quattro cuplul este transferat in exterior, este foarte usor. Mai este un mare avantaj: se poate upgrada software foarte usor...

La performantele masinii contribuie multi factori, e greu sa facem o comparatie intre AWD in functie de timpii de pe circuit

Va recomand acest link http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050714.001

Si da este pro-active.

With BMW xDrive reacting within fractions of a second, the system offers enormous advantages also in terms of traction. When setting out on slippery or loose ground, for example, the time-lag between the loss of wheel grip on the surface and the re-distribution of drive forces to wheels with grip is only a few milliseconds.

BMW xDrive distributes drive power infinitely and fully variably between the front and rear axle. The system immediately recognises the need to change the distribution of engine power and responds extremely quickly, usually be­fore a wheel even loses grip when driving onroad. As a result, xDrive feeds exactly the right drive power to each axle when, for example, taking a bend fast and dynamically, in the process significantly reducing both under- and oversteer.

The electronically controlled multiple-plate clutch in the power divider con­trols the flow of power to the front axle within milliseconds as a function of individual requirements. In extreme cases the front and rear axles are even fully disconnected from one another or rigidly, firmly connected to form one unit.

Oh wow...axele sint deconectate una de alta...adica no traction...adica soferul devine pasager...la mila computerului. Asta...sincer mi-a zbirlit parul pe spate...de ajunsesem un arici

Intervening electronically in the brakes, DSC provides the same function as a transverse wheel lock with forced distribution of power to the front and rear wheels: As soon as a wheel starts to spin without conveying power, the brakes cut in to slow the wheel down, the differential in the final drive thus feeding more power to the opposite wheel.

Am sa revin cand timpul imi permite

Subaru's center differential contributes to performance for ideal traction for all four wheels by appropriately distributing the torque. Moreover, a racing driver noted, "Driving a car involves controlling the traction to all four wheels." Subaru's center differential regarded this as important function and actually achieved. The center differential is one of the main factors that enables AWD driving performance, which is responsive and superbly faithful to the driver's will.
The VTD of the Subaru Legacy is patented technology called "double-planetary gear type variable torque distribution."
This VTD has a mechanism consisting of helical gears-- one front sun gear, one rear sun gear and three planetary gears, and one carrier.

Torque Distribution system.
Whether it's tackling a gravel-strewn FIA WRC special stage, or simply running into standing water on tarmac, keeping your car stable by getting the best possible traction is vital. That's where the technology of our torque distribution system sets Subaru apart from conventional 4-wheel drive set-ups. Evolved from the very outset specifically for Symmetrical AWD, it actively distributes engine torque to individual wheels - not just to front or rear axles, as some others do. In fractions of a second, our smart system automatically adjusts the amount of torque, giving maximum grip and stability wherever and whenever it's needed - not only in extreme conditions, but in everyday driving. The result is dynamic handling that feels truly intuitive, making the car behave like an extension of the driver's body and mind. So, even when road conditions change unexpectedly, torque distribution plays a crucial role in achieving the goal of stability and control.
Maximum grip showcase

LSD(Limited Slip Differential)
LSD(Limited Slip Differential)

At the very core of this complement to AWD stability is Subaru's centre limited slip differential. A sophisticated mechanism controls torque distribution and limits tyre slip pro-actively, rather than reactively, depending on the different surfaces you encounter along your journey. This real time adjustment makes sure that a Subaru always uses its AWD traction and stability to the full. But it's not just for slippery and adverse conditions either. So, while you may never see our central differential in the flesh, it's very reassuring to know that this marriage of technology and mechanical engineering is constantly working with all the other Subaru technologies, to keep your car more stable, and you safer.

Este o mica animatzie care poatre te intereseaza
http://www.subaru-global.com/about/awd/per...ance/index.html
Maximum Grip Showcase - Corner & Wet Road

[Link-ul imi place...cu toate ca as putea face talente...ca vezi doamne...ghici unde era aceasta informatzie...pe un forum al GERMAN CAR FANS.

Numai aici am gasit pe larg explicatii

Dar nu este PRO-ACTIVE

Cum zici tu ...[/b]

QUOTE

Asta inteleg ca nu ai citit .

EXEMPLU !
Ok si prima referintza la transfer lateral. Pai...tot la parerea initziala ca da...e avansat...citeste situatzia drumului mai repede si poate face ajustari mai repede...dar treaba asta cu pseudo - traction iar ma agita. Pai ma scuzi...asta nu este transfer lateral adevarat...Pur si simplu...daca creierul masinii a decis ca puntea fatza are nevoie de 30% ...iar puntea spate 70%...atunci daca roata dreapta spate dintr-o data pierde tractziunea...inseamna ca frina dreapta spate o frineaza...si deci contributzia ei de 35% (jumatate din 70% cuplu dedicat puntzii spate) este pierdut in neant...iar masina opereaza pe

stinga fatza 15%
dreapta fatza 15%
stinga spate 35%
dreapta spate 0% (frinata)


Teoretic ai dreptate pt "a few miliseconds" pana cand cuplul este redistribuit intre punti .


Pai I am sorry...dar la Subaru pot trimite pina la 100% la oricare 2 rotzi. Diferentzialul pe fatza la Legacy este deschis (la fel ca la Audi, BMW) deci orice primeste puntea fatza se imparte fratzeste pe din 2. Dar in situatzia precizata mai sus...asa...incet cum este...ca doar masina saracului nu poate reactziona in a few milliseconds...ci in citeva minute....tot cuplul este transferat la roata ailalta. Dupa care sistemul tinde din nou spre 50%-50% fatza spate.

stinga fatza 15%
dreapta fatza 15%
stinga spate 70%
dreapta spate 0% (nefrinata, dar fara cuplu)

Imi pare rau dar m-ai pierdut pe drum aici. Deci masina are 50 - 50 de
25
25
25
25

Intra dsc sau ceum se numeste el si taie o roata. Deci ramai cu
25
25
25
0

In afara situatiei in care tu ai pus 70-30 si ai taiat din aia 70(de ce nu ai taiat din 30?) situatia este similara si aceeasi. Situatiile de genul asta nu dureaza nici 2 sec.


Iar daca amestecam si STi-ul in povestea asta...cu diferential LSD si pe fatza...cu DCCD (driver controlled center differential - electronic by the way, sau automat de creierul masinii)...pot spune ca puterea poate fi trimisa 100% la o singura roata. Asa...cu tot visco-cuplajul asta antic de pe vremea lui Fuji-san si a fiului sau Subarumoto.

Pe sosea uscata sau cu ceva ploaie ...as prefera BMW...pt ca fara LSD (centru, spate), pierderile prin transmisie sint mai mici. Dar cind e vorba de business adevarat cu zapada si ploaie serioasa...cred ca imi prefer masina de om de rind.

Imi cer scuze nu sunt obisnuit cu acest forum daca nu se intelege moderatorul poate sa stearga postul de mai sus.

P.S. 2 studii de caz in vederea intelegerii functionarii diferentialelor deschise:
1. O masina FWD (un Golf III sa spunem) cu diferential deschis pe fata, are roata din dreapta pe gheata iar cea din stanga pe asfalt. In cazul accelerarii puternice, care este distributia cuplului intre cele doua roti?

2. Aceleiasi masina i se aplica frana doar pe roata dreapta. Care este distributia cuplului in acest caz?

http://www.houseofthud.com/differentials.htm

So what's wrong with the open diff?

The problem is an open diff always tries to balance the torque. That's a hard statement to get a grasp on, but it means that if the spider gears are pushing on both drive gears and one of them offers lots of resistance (tire sitting on pavement) and the other side offers no resistance (up in the air, or sitting on a patch of ice), then it will find a happy balance where both sides are receiving almost no torque at all. All the rotational energy is guided to the side with the least resistance. In the end, that side spins very fast and the pressure on each drive gear is the same.. Almost no torque is needed to spin one wheel, and therefore almost no torque is going to the other side as well. Anyone who's driven on snow or ice knows this trick.

EDL (often referred to as Electronic Traction Control.)
This system is used by the VW GTI-VR6 (FWD) and Mercedes ML320 (AWD) and probably others.
It's the poor man's LSD. (Some people dislike my characterization of it, as it can be very finely tuned, but it's still very cheap to implement and has some reliability problems.)

Like the viscous coupling, they are often used to transfer power between the front and rear wheels. In this application, the Torsen is superior to the viscous coupling because it transfers torque to the stable wheels before the actual slipping occurs.

However, if one set of wheels loses traction completely, the Torsen differential will be unable to supply any torque to the other set of wheels. The bias ratio determines how much torque can be transferred, and five times zero is zero.

hai cu filmuletul

When it comes to secure handling and stability, in normal or adverse conditions, Subaru's Symmetrical AWD will always have the edge over other 4WD systems. Here, instinctive rally-proven capabilities inspire you to drive the car as you want - even when travelling fast over rough or slippery roads, where traction can easily be compromised. Again, it's all about the enjoyment of handling Subaru cars with complete confidence. In other manufacturers' systems, low traction levels usually activate some form of traction control, instead of relying solely on the vehicle's AWD ability. That's what can lead to instability when cornering on wet or greasy surfaces. At Subaru, we believe that the first line of defence should always be Symmetrical AWD, which constantly keeps grip at its best. However, we also recognise that sometimes, a driver could meet with a situation that needs quite sudden and violent avoiding action. Where reaction is delayed, the steering wheel may also be turned extremely quickly to swerve away. This could then possibly precipitate a spin

That's where Subaru Vehicle Dynamics Control* system saves the day. As an adjunct to the full-time security of AWD, it acts as a vital backstop in emergencies, kicking in only when it's really needed. Sensors monitor vehicle speed, throttle opening, gear position, lateral G, yaw rate, brake status, steering wheel angle - analysing the actual driving situation. Then, a computer simultaneously co-ordinates control of torque distribution, engine output and ABS - using braking on the outside-front or outside-front and rear tyres to stop the car from spinning. None of which detracts from your everyday pleasure in driving your Subaru. But even if Subaru Vehicle Dynamics Control system never betrays its presence, it's very reassuring to know it's there if needed.
* Available on certain models.

Adica exact ceea ce faceau ceilalti, numai ca aici Subaru este din nou inaintea tuturor. Ceea ce "uita" ei sa spuna este ca fragmentul al doilea este valabil doar cu cutie automata (ma rog, este o steluta acolo). Daca in primul caz critica concurenta, in cel de-al doilea caz aduce elogii unui sistem care nu functioneaza decat cu cutie automata, asta in timp ce concurenta ofera acelasi lucru cu ambele transmisii. Adica noi suntem mai tari decat oricine ca oferim ESP pe transmisii automate, in timp ce ceilalti sunt slabi ca folosesc electronica. Pai ce, ESP-ul de pe Subaru e mecanic? Cum ramane cu AWD-ul concuretei compatibil cu cutiile manuale?
Pana la urma intelegi cat de usor poti fi pacalit de marketing?

Pai daca tu pui intrebarea asta...si tzie itzi este neclara functzionarea diferentzia.lelor. Sorry to say it.

It's the poor man's LSD. (Some people dislike my characterization of it, as it can be very finely tuned, but it's still very cheap to implement and has some reliability problems.)

A simple braking trick helps though. (Note, the EDL system discussed above, actually works pretty well with a torsen diff. It activates rarely, but allows for much greater torque transfer when it does.)

It is capable of going from an open differential to say 60% locked differential condition absolutely instantly (zero lag), so many would argue that it's about as close to perfect as it gets for performance driving. There are no clutches to wear out. Several AWD systems like the Quattro system put a torsen diff in the center of the car to control slip between front and rear wheels. This system does not have the problem the VC does with the ABS. A torsen diff only distributes torque when it's under load. When it's freewheeling all the wheels can turn at different speeds as the ABS may desire.
(Note: It looks like the current Audi Quattro system only uses the torsen diff in the center, and some other LSD or EDL at the axles. )

The disadvantages are that the mechanism is a bit heavier, more mechanically complicated thus expensive, and can't be tuned or adjusted dynamically. Plus, it reacts so fast and is so even handed that it literally makes a torsen diff equipped AWD car boring when you'd really like to hang it all out. If you want to go 100mph in the snow nothing beats Quattro. If you want to slide sideways or spin and recover, forget it. I've heard that VW's new 4motion system is much more fun because of its electronic control.

in concluzie: Torsen al Quattro permite o distributie mai buna a cuplului fata-spate in timp ce STI ( si Legacy GT) permite o distributie mai buna a cuplului stanga dreapta.

oricum un Legacy GT limited ( cu aprox aceeasi greutate si aceeasi putere) este semnificativ mai rapid ( 5.9sec) decat un A4 quattro 3.2l FSI (255CP) = 6.4 sec si decat un BMW 330xi= 6.4 sec care sunt muuult mai scumpe. e marginal mai putin manevrabil decat un 330xi dar par cu A4-le similar motorizat...

Nu despre asta vorbeam? Torsen este foarte scump, este clar. Poate LSD-ul de pe Subaru face 90% din torsen la bani mai putin, insa cel mai performant tot quattro ramane...

Valentin, ce inseamna performant?

iata ca Legacy GT cu 250CP este mai rapid decat A4 quattro cu 255CP? este intr-adevar mai sigur pentru ca are ESP...

Subaru brings rally car technology to the street
by Jim Kerr
Photos by Grant Yoxon

Some of the technology that makes Subaru all wheel drive vehicles handle so well comes from their many years of World Rally Car experience. Subaru has excelled in this form of racing and recently offered some of their hot technology to us in the form of the WRX STi. This rally-inspired street car features a 300 horsepower intercooled, turbocharged four cylinder engine, a six speed manual transmission and dramatic styling. Another important feature of this quick and fun to drive sports car is its DCCD driveline.

DCCD stands for Driver Controlled Centre Differential. The WRX STi used three differentials. The front axle is a cam type limited slip unit. The rear axle differential is a mechanical limited slip unit, and the third differential is located at the rear of the manual transmission and can be controlled by the driver. This centre differential can automatically vary the ratio of the power split between the front and the rear axles, or the split can be set by the driver with a switch on the console.

Subaru WRX STi

Subaru WRX STi

Subaru WRX STi

Subaru WRX STi

Subaru WRX STi

Subaru WRX STi
Click image to enlarge
With the DCCD selector switch set in Auto mode, the torque split between the front and rear is 65% front and 35% rear. This torque split ratio is a result of the gear ratio of the planetary gear set that makes up the centre differential. Because of the torque split in the differential and the balance of the car, the Subaru WRX STi tends to oversteer. According to Subaru, this car was "built for people who want to drive".

A manual selector switch on the console enables the driver to control the torque split. Set it at 100% and the 100 indicator on the dash display lights up. This represents fully locked which is actually a 50/50 torque split in the centre differential. Several other torque splits can be selected for different road conditions or car balance conditions the driver wishes, all the way down to 0% or completely unlocked.

Inside the DCCD housing, two cam plates with ramps between them and small balls in the ramps are located at the rear of the differential. The Subaru system energizes a computer-controlled magnetic clutch to vary the torque split. When the coil assembly is energized, one of the cam plates is slowed, causing the balls to roll up the ramps, forcing the planetary gear set forward. A multi-plate limited-slip clutch at the front end of the planetary gear set is forced together by the end thrust inside the unit, locking the parts of the planetary gear set together. With the planetary gear set locked, the torque split is 50% to the front and 50% to the rear.

Several inputs enable the computer to calculate the amount of torque split desired and apply the clutch. The main sensor is a lateral G sensor located in the centre of the car. Lateral acceleration or the cornering force of the car is balanced by varying the torque split. The throttle position is also monitored so the differential can be locked during acceleration. The stop light switch sends a signal to unlock the differential so the four channel ABS braking is optimized.

A parking brake switch signals the computer to unlock the differential, enabling drivers to do "handbrake turns" during rally-type driving. Finally, a rear differential temperature sensor is used so that if the rear differential overheats, the centre differential will unlock. During extended periods of driving aggressively with the centre differential locked, the load on the drivetrain can cause differentials to overheat, so the rear axle temperature is monitored as a safety factor.

Let's look at how the system responds automatically if the driver is aggressively navigating a hairpin corner. As the car enters the corner, the brakes are applied and the differential unlocks for optimum braking with the ABS system. As the driver turns into the corner, the differential provides a 65/35% front to rear torque split for optimum traction and continues to vary the torque split until the gripping point of the corner is reached. Then the differential locks up in response to throttle opening for straight line stability and acceleration.

DCCD is Subaru's most performance-oriented All-Wheel Drive system. It provides optimum traction, straight-line stability and enables the driver to adjust the car so it can match both the road conditions and the driver's needs. Rally inspired systems like this make the WRX STi a fun, responsive car to drive.

Jim Kerr is a master automotive mechanic and teaches automotive technology. He has been writing automotive articles for fifteen years for newspapers and magazines in Canada and the United States, and is a member of the Automotive Journalist's Association of Canada (AJAC).

5.7sec 0-60mph este timpul obtinut de car&driver si de motor trend. In USA f. putini producatori pun acceleratiile pe site-urile lor.

chiar si ultima generatie de quattro nu mi se pare chiar asa de convingatoare. sa luam etalonul BMW ( care nu prea e batut de nimeni la rapiditatea masinilor sale la un nr. x de CP):

de ex. RS4 cu 418CP accelereaza numai marginal mai rapid fata de BMW M3 cu numai 333CP. Legacy GT accelereaza la fel de rapid ca un BMW 330i cu 255CP...

parerea mea e ca la banii dati Subaru ofera performante pe care la Audi le iei cu 3-5K mai mult ( nu neg ca banii nu se merita, prob ca da pentru ca sunt si elementele de comfort si rafinament unde indiscutabil Audi "delivers").

valentin , de curiozitate , ai condus un subaru vreodata ?

si TDI urile sunt tractoare ... tzaca tzaca tzaca iti spune ceva ?

chiar si ultima generatie de quattro nu mi se pare chiar asa de convingatoare.

Mai inainte spuneai ca scoate 5.9, acum ai gasit un test in care scoate mai putin? Cand compar timpii 0-100 eu ma iau dupa datele anuntate de producator.

George nu il ai tu ? FLAINE ? Un Subaru STI alb, filmul parea francez ? A aparut prin Februarie 2005 ? Un Sti alb mergind la munte si cobora FOARTE repede un drum acoperit cu zapada ?

Cea mai spectaculoasa si cea mai puternica clasa de raliu a tuturor timpurilor si cel mai de seama castigator al ei:

Este de departe cel mai invidiat sistem AWD care a existat vreodata.

dar este singurul modele de la Subaru care este capabil de asa ceva (sa aiba tractziune numai pe o roata si sa avanseze)

Un film care nu are nici o insemnatate pentru discutia de aici. Acel film nu face decat sa arater maiestria unor piloti in controlarea unei masini pe zapada, dar este un film frumos, fara indoiala.

Despre sistemele proactive:
Asta este o alta inventie a marketingului. Practic nu exista nici un sistem care sa anticipeze cu adevarat momentul cand se pierde aderenta (la fel ca la ABS)

@f1anatic: parerea ta reprezinta un exemplu de ipocrizie transferata de la marca adulata, la tine. Ieri BMW-ul (Haldex-ul si, probabil, multi altii) erau niste fraieri care nu erau in stare sa faca un sistem AWD fara electronica si azi, dintr-o data, Subaru realizeaza ceva magnific, o adevarata opera de arta asistata electonic. You got that right champ. Cuvintzul magic l-ai spus chiar tu ASISTAT ELECTRONIC. Nu este EDL, nu este bazat pe electronica, nu necesita ABS-ul,...este ajutata de electronica. E o mica diferentza
Imi insiri o serie de cuvinte care habar n-ai ce reprezinta, amesteci diferite tipuri de diferentiale intre ele si ma contrazici la fiecare pas si total aiurea. Nu exista post de-al tau in care sa nu aduci vorba de masina saracului, BMW si Audi rulz, tractoare (cum le-ai adus in discutie vis-a-vis de Legacy GT, nu stiu), sisteme fraiere etc.
Acestea sunt ultimele mele cuvinte care iti sunt adresate tie pe acest forum... pentru multa vreme de acum inainte. Interventia mea s-a vrut oportuna pentru a va mai domoli elanul "fanatic" de a considera celelalte sisteme AWD depasite de capodopera Subaru.

Valentin...observ la tine...acelasi caracter de primadona de la baietzii cu BMW: Tu ai "opera de arta" , o "bijuterie" de AWD si asa mai departe.

Mama mama...si eu care credeam ca era Lancia Delta S4 care avea 450 de CP... Si dupa ce au fost citeva accidente soldate cu mortzi, s-au schimbat regulile Grupei B de raliuri. Si interesant...AUDI s-au retras dupa aceea ...si continua sa nu ia parte in Campionatul de Raliuri...si dupa 20 de ani. Cu asa meserie de AWD.

Imi povestesti cu atita zel despre AUDI cistingind Le Mans. Ce legatura are asta cu tehnologia masinilor de strada ? Ah...putem sa le legam cind vorbim despre FSI. In rest esti pe cimp onarabilule...Masinile alea RS-8 nu au AWD.

Ai ocolit subiectul STi cu multa agilitate...

Dar din cite am intzeles nu toate AWD-urile puse de VAG "are created equal". Din cite se pare cel de pe A4 nu e cine stie ce de capul lui. Iar cind il comparam cu Subaru ...brusc nu mai este "fair play" in opinia ta pt. ca comparam ce au ei mai bun cu ceva - si aici incepi sa spui cite ceva despre generatziile quattro - una peste alta trebuie sa ne raportam la S4 si RS4.

Cind spun ca nu am incredere in electronica...nu inseamna sa traiesc ca Amish. Dar nici nu vreau sa aud de EDL. Am diferentziale mecanice al caror miscare/angrenare etc este decisa de catre silicon. Fine. Si senzori de la rotzi am suficientzi de multzi chiar si pe cutia manuala. Pentru mine electronica nu este solutzia la tot ce misca. Tzin ritmul cu ea...dar prefer anumite chestii sa ramina mai clasice cel putzin o bucata de vreme pina se dovedesc a fi fiabile si viabile.

Un film pe care eu/George nici nu l-am pus. Iar acum tu te asteptzi ca noi sa cadem in extaz la link-ul (filmul) pus de tine ? Hai sa fim seriosi... Potzi sa itzi folosesti propriul citat - ca raspuns al meu. Sau ca sa pun sumarul...Nu ma intereseaza...nu imi dovedeste nimic.

Subaru sint ipocritzi cind comenteaza asupra sistemelor altora. Si ulterior ajungi la consensul ca nici un sistem nu este cu adevarat pro-active.

Dar nu te-ai sfiit sa spui asta de-abia cind am aratat ca si Subaru "pretinde" la fel. Cit a fost discutzia despre X-Drive-ul de la BMW nu ai facut aceasta afirmatzie. Double standards ? De ce nu spui pe sleau ca de fapt totzi sint ipocritzi si isi etaleaza produsele sa para mina lui Dumnezeu...iar concurentza e pe malul alalalt ? Well ?

Iar despre referintzele la masina saracului - ce oi vrea sa spun. Cind e vorba de masinile nemtzesti...NU se compara. In astea nemtzesti stai in lux, in sigurantza, in comfort, motoarele sint o bijuterie, sistemele AWD sint invidiate de toata lumea. E clar ca daca nu mi-am cumparat...sint sarac si conduc o masina corespunzatoare. Credeam ca ai citit ultimul thread Subaru vs. Toata viatza am sa-mi doresc sa pipai un DSG ? Remember ? Fii tu fericit cu Torsen... e tot ce imi doresc...pt. mine...it is the little things in life that matter !

Pa si La Multzi Ani ! Si be safe cu Torsen AWD !