Probleme cu ambreiajul

varianta 2 suna foarte bine. tine-ne la curent

Si eu tot pe varianta doi as merge fara discutie, insa cu o mica modificare. Adica as comanda un kitt nou Germania (mai ieftin ca la noi) si l-as da la baietii astia (cam ce spunea John cu nemtii, dar cu Essenul e complicat). Singura conditie este ca ei sa-ti dea garantie la ambreiajul refacut (un 36 luni eventual). Numai ca atentie, cu noul ambreiaj la greseli din astea brutale de "pilotaj" nu se va mai duce ambreiajul ci va pica ceva din transmisie probabil (ma rog, poate exagerez un pic, dar cam asa ceva)

Mdaaa !

Am primit o oferta bunicica pentru varianta 1 (piese noi):
- Disc ambreiaj - 583 + TVA;
- Placa presiune - 709 + TVA;
- Rulment presiune - 20 + TVA.

Termen de livrare 3-5 zile de la comanda ferma.

In conditiile astea merg pe varianta 1.

Acum, ramane sa-l conving pe seful de service care mi-a sarit in cap ca de ce sa schimb ambreiajul atata timp cat nu face probleme, doar pentru o patinare singulara !

Bine, el a zis - daca vrei, hai si-l schimbam, ca doar castigam bani din asta !

vezi manopera cat e daca tin bine minte e cam piperata , ca trebuie mult desfacut pe acolo.

Nu mai retin exact tariful, dar parca, la Sibiu, este cca. 80 lei/ora tehnologica.

Asta oricum o plateam, indiferent de varianta aleasa ...

E vorba de pisele originale sau variante OEM ? ceva mai capabil ?
Da si niste detalii, coduri

Codurile sunt cele ale reperelor originale (furnizate prin amabilitatea celor din service).
Oferta a fost solicitata la Auto Total (parca).

Un prieten care-i in bransa s-a ocupat de asta, nu am detalii suplimentare preturile fiind-mi transmise de respectivul amic prin telefon.

Zilele astea-s plecat, dar probabil vineri am sa ajung pe-acolo sa vad si eu e-mailul cu pricina.

Totusi, daca nu ma insel, este vorba de produse Sachs (sau LUK ??).

Nu prea-s multi furnizori de piese pentru Subaru, iar pentru modelele noi chiar mai putini.

Chiar asa, din experienta voastra, ce ati recomanda ca si ambreiaj: Sachs sau Luk ?

Intreb asta deoarece seful de service zicea ca a mai avut clienti care au venit cu produse Luk si eu ma intreb, la randul meu, DE CE ?
Or fi mai bune sau mai ieftine decat cele de la Sachs ?


Cat despre coduri, in intelepciunea mea, nu le-am notat (in sensul unei copii de siguranta) ... dar daca intereseaza, iau o palinca pentru baieti si le mai cer odata !

This post has been edited by Marius30562: May 26 2010, 04:21 PM

Pai Sachs le face pentru Subaru astea Diesel de la bun inceput. Deci ala "original" care vrei sa-l schimbi e Sachs.

Stiu ca Subaru vine cu ambreiaj Sachs din fabrica.
Ei sunt furnizorii Subaru (si nu numai).

Din pacate, cel putin deocamdata, nu prea avem multe variante pentru dieselurile Subaru.

Vom vedea ce va mai fi.

Deocamdata, astept sa inceapa sa dea semne de oboseala de-adevaratelea.

Ambreiajul se comporta deocamdata exact ca si inainte - nu patineaza, nu am dificultati la schimbarea vitezelor, nu prinde mai sus decat de obicei.

Patania descrisa anterior o trecem la accidente.
Cu un efect, probabil, semnificativ asupra duratei de viata a ambreiajului.

In perioada imediat urmatoare am programate drumuri de vre-o 2000 km prin tara.
Deci, oricum schimbarea ambreiajului in urmatoarele 2 saptamani era exclusa neputandu-ma lipsi de masina 2 zile.

Dupa ce termin cu circuitele prin tara, vedem daca si cand purcedem la schimbarea ambreiajului.

Anyway, la pretul asta, clar merg pe ambreiaj nou.
Nu stiu ce efecte ar putea avea asupra restului componentelor transmisiei schimbarea elementelor de frictiune cu unele mai ... heavy duty !

Si nici nu sunt intr-atat de curios ca sa o aflu pe pielea mea ...

Ce se mai aude cu ambreiajul ?

Am mai auzit o poveste cu Happy End Legacy Diesel, schimbat la 10,000 km. Pace si prietenie. Adica SMT l-a schimbat gratis, cica ceva relatii, iar clientul - profil de liniutar ce e drept - a fost convins ca nu l-a utilizat corespunzator.

John, cum adica materialul ecologic are cuplu cu 37% mai mic ?

Pentru motorul Diesel cu 350 Nm au pus un ambreiaj care duce un cuplu mult mai mic, doar ca sa salveze planeta?

La ce se refera acest max torque: la cat duce fiind cuplat sau la cat il poti patina cand esti mai suparat ?

E torque ce poate fi transmis in conditiile de uzura uniforma (normala). Peste aceasta valoare apare incalzirea excesiva si distrugerea materialului/ansamblului.
Dintr-un catalog Sachs :
"Änderungen von Serienkupplung zu Performancekupplung:
Changes to OE performance clutch:
- höhere thermische Belastbarkeit als organischer Reibbelag
higher thermal capacity compared to organic friction material
- höheres übertragbares Drehmoment gegenüber organischem Reibbelag
higher convertible torque compared to organic friction material

Motormomente / Transmittable Engine Torque
Bestellnr. max. übertragbares max. übertragbares | max. übertragbares solange
Motormoment (Nm) | Motormoment (Nm) | Motormoment (Nm) Vorrat
organischer Belag | org. Spezialbelag | Sinterbelag reicht
Reference-No. | max. transmittable |

This post has been edited by JohnSA: Jun 10 2010, 09:16 AM

OK John, il vom trata in continuare cu maxima blandete. Adica faci ce vrei numai dupa ce ai cuplat ambreiajul, mai usor cu frecatul prin borduri, liniute, tractat camioane, noroaie sau stanci. Probabil e imposibil sa aflam daca pe masina avem organic, organic special sau sau sintered.

Tu acum ai aflat la ce foloseste ambreiajul ?

Este un moment dificil dar trebuie sa recunosc ca pedala cea mica din stanga m-a incomodat vizibil la orice incercare de a conduce pe drumurile publice. Cand credeam ca am inteles care e solutia, si am vrut o masina fara aceasta pedala, m-am trezit ca tocmai pe masina perfecta - Subaru Diesel - nu exista aceasta optiune "clutch pedal removal".

"Myth #1: It's OK to constantly "ride" the clutch.
If there's a philosophical way to think about how to treat your clutch, this could be it: Whenever the clutch pedal isn't all the way up or all the way down, you're putting wear on your clutch. Picture a big red light mounted on your dashboard. Whenever the clutch pedal isn't fully depressed or fully released the light is on, and your goal is to keep the light off.

That's a general way you might think about how to drive a manual transmission vehicle. In truth it's OK to spend a second or two in the process of pressing or releasing the clutch pedal (you certainly don't want to treat it like a light switch), but in general the less time spent in this transitional period the better.

Myth #2: Use the clutch to hold your car in place on steep hills.
If you're stopped on a slight incline you must use the brake to keep the car from rolling backward. If you're worried about rolling back between the time you release the brake pedal and engage the clutch you can "cheat" by pulling the emergency brake. Don't fully apply the E-brake unless you're on a really steep hill. Instead, just use enough E-brake to keep the car from rolling backward. Then engage the clutch when traffic allows and pull away from the stop, being sure to release the E-brake as soon as you start moving forward. The most important rule, however, is never use the clutch to hold your car in place while waiting on an incline. Doing this will burn out that imaginary red light on the dash ? as well as really burn out the clutch.

Myth #3: Use the clutch to save your brakes.
The clutch can theoretically be used as a braking device when slowing down, but this is more trouble than it's worth. First, if you're using the clutch to slow a car to "save your brakes" you better be really good with the clutch. If you're not smooth in your downshifting you'll be putting extra wear on the clutch.

Anyone want to guess which components cost more to replace ? brake pads or a clutch plate? You're better off just pushing the clutch pedal in and leaving it in, and/or shifting to neutral, when slowing down in a manual-shift vehicle ? especially if you aren't extremely smooth at downshifting. If you are smooth at downshifting and you feel like going through the trouble, you can constantly downshift and release the clutch as you slow down. But even doing that action smoothly won't make your brakes last appreciably longer.

Myth #4: It's impossible to be perfectly smooth when engaging the clutch.
Always try to learn exactly where the clutch pedal is when the clutch starts to engage. You can practice this in a parking lot, and once you are familiar with it you can use this knowledge to make every shift smoother. This will add confidence to your ability to stop and start on an incline, and it will make downshifting easier, because you can quickly let the clutch pedal go from the floor to the area in the pedal travel where the clutch actually starts to engage (it's different on every car). Once you get to that point quickly you can then modulate the speed at which the pedal is released to achieve a smooth engagement. This is how you can keep from rolling back on an incline without using the E-brake.

Myth #5: It's normal for the car to lurch when downshifting.
When you do downshift (without coming to a complete stop) it's important to "rev-match." This means raising the engine's rpm as you release the clutch to more closely match your vehicle's engine speed to the rear-wheel speed. Again, this is only important on downshifting. As you accelerate and upshift you don't have to worry about rev-matching. By giving the engine just a bit of throttle when you downshift you can make the clutch engagement smoother, which reduces clutch wear and head bobbing on downshifts."

This post has been edited by GLC120: Jun 15 2010, 12:41 PM

Eu am benzinar de 2 litrii -stie toata lumea -si mi-a picat acu ceva timp,pe la 80k km ambreiajul.
S-a intamplat brusc,la stop,fara nici o chestie.Cand am apasat pedala sa bag in a-1a sa plec de pe loc,s-a dus pedala,a inceput sa scartaie motorul,ceva mai tare -scartaia deja putin de la cureaua de la alternator proqaspat schimbata de niste profesionisti - am fost invadat de mirosul ala infect care mi s-a impregnat in piele si nu mai scapam de el.si ma rog,nu pleaca de loc,am reusit sa plec,cu greu,s-a oprit fix intr-o parcare imediat dupa colt.A venit seful de service-ul unde merg,a costatat omu' ca nu-i si alteceva si a chemat platforma.
recunosc,a mers masina si am forjat-o la maxim.A mers in turatii,am facut cerculete si derapaje pe nisip,pietris,zapada,plecari de la stop in forta si graba continua.Deci,recunosc,si-a scos banii ambreiajul,doar ca din pacate a picat fix dupa ce am platit 1800 lei pe distributie la A-klasse si asteptam incasari sa sa-mi repar jucaria.

Deci,concluzionand,picat fara semne,fara patinaje,fara nimic.pur si simplu.si detest mirosul ala...nu puteau si astia sa-l faca sa miroasa la levantica?!!

Eu cred ca au studiat mirosul. Ca pute "like no other" Nu am intalnit masina la care ambreiajul "parlit" sa puta mai tare si mai naspa decat la Subaru.

Eu cred ca astia au studiat treaba cu mirosul!
adica au zis ca ambreiajul,fiind deosebit de important,in cazul "deteriorarii" sa puta nene,sa-ti dai seama cat de grav e!

Ai vazut ca daca se buleste un maner de la usa,nu pute!deci nu e grav!

hai ca am numai prostii in cap....

This post has been edited by bakero: Jul 2 2010, 12:04 PM

Bakero, la cat ai frecat masinuta aia, in sensul bun al cuvantului, eu zic ca te-a tinut bine de tot ambreiaju' De obicei la Subaru se vorbea de regula celor 60.000. Asa ca be happy.