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Iulian HondaFan
The idea of high-pressure diesel fuel injection with a single, electronically-controlled injector per cylinder, was patented in 1988 by Fiat Auto. It came from basic research carried out by Fiat Auto together with Fiat Group Research Center, the Elasis research center in southern Italy, and Fiat's components arm Magneti Marelli.

With its technology partners, Fiat Auto worked on a project called UniJet - later publicly known as common rail. But lacking enough resources to carry over the development for production in a short time, in 1993 Fiat Auto decided to sell the patents to Robert Bosch GmbH for $14 million. Bosch developed the technology with Fiat Auto and Mercedes and, since late 1997 until 2000 has been the sole common-rail supplier.

The very first common rail system was patented by Vickers in England as long ago as 1913, but that system differs significantly from modern systems.

Fiat was the world's first maker to use direct-injection (DI) diesel engines in passenger cars with the Croma in 1986. The drawback to DI engines was greater combustion noise than IDI ( InDirect Injection) diesels. While they used up to 15% less fuel than indirect injection engines, the staccato metallic sound that combustion produces was not guaranteed to have potential buyers queuing at their dealers. It is one reason why premium brands such as Mercedes-Benz and BMW were late adopters of DI engines.

Fiat was also the first to use common-rail in October 1997 on Alfa Romeo 1.9-liter and 2.4-liter diesels. It was shortly followed by Mercedes' CDI in December 1997.

In common rail the injectors feed from one pipe pressurized by the fuel injector pump, instead of from individual lines. This arrangement makes it easier to maintain a regulated source of high pressure rather than regenerating pressure after every injection cycle and controls the leaned-out mixture for direct injection into the cylinder. Since the fuel is pressurised at anything up to 1,800 bar (some 26,000psi) in current common rail systems, although 1,600 bar (23,000psi) is more typical today, roughly equivalent to water pressure on the seabed 12 miles below sea level, sealing common rail systems is critical. This inevitably means that manufacturing tolerances are equally critical and therefore expensive. The same is true of the injectors themselves, whose feed pipes inside the injector are around the thickness of a human hair.

The principal advantage of common rail is that fuel pressure is independent of engine speed, which will become more critical as emissions regulations tighten and take more account of start-up emissions, traditionally an engine's dirtiest emissions point. The other advantage is that the common pressurised fuel supply lends itself readily to "pilot" and "post" injection sequences. These are also important for emissions reasons. Pilot injection is the principal means of controlling diesel combustion noise and the reason why modern diesels have become so much quieter. By injecting a tiny amount of fuel before the main injection pulse, combustion can begin more slowly, producing smoother combustion, with lower noise and pressure levels inside the engine.

Common-rail direct-injection typically offers a 12 percent improvement in performance. It also uses 15 percent less fuel compared with traditional diesel engines. Aside from their added expense and weight, current common rail systems are, however, less efficient at high rpm.

That problem likely caused Audi to use in 1997 a conventional, single-line system for its 2.5-liter direct-injection diesel V-6, dubbed TDI. Audi's engine was the first direct-injection diesel on the market when it debuted in European versions of the A6 and A8 in 1997. TDI relies on Electronic Unit (or pump) Injectors (EUI) that along with its ECU are provided to VAG by Bosch. In this case, fuel is fed at low pressure to a pump and injector combined in a single unit in the cylinder head. The pump is driven off the camshaft and the injector controlled electronically by the engine ECU. This means that compared with common rail, the pump has to pressurize a very small quantity of fuel, barely a millilitre. The principal advantage is that using a steeply profiled cam the plunger type pump can provide far higher injection pressures, currently up to 2,050 bar (almost 30,000 psi). Pilot injection can be provided with the system, but fuel pressure is relative to engine speed - the lower the engine speed, the lower the pressures produced.

Although modern EUI systems have become smaller, they must take up space within the cylinder head, which means that the cylinder head must be designed to accommodate them. By comparison, common rail systems are largely external, with only the injectors and supply piping taking up space in the cylinder head. This has made it easier for engine manufacturers to adapt existing DI engines to common rail and is another reason for the relative popularity of common rail.

Ford had its first common rail -a 1.8-liter Delphi unit offered on the Focus in March 2001. Also from Delphi is the first "small" common rail, a 1.5-liter unit that Renault has on Clio since May 2001. Delphi's injectors are individually matched to each engine control unit. Each injector's performance “signature” is recorded during manufacture, then programmed into the engine's electronic control unit (ECU). As the injectors age or encounter other performance-deteriorating conditions, the ECU measures their responses to the originally recorded performance — and then can adjust each injector “on the fly” to maintain optimum engine performance. Delphi also makes diesel parts for Peugeot, Citroen, Kia, Isuzu and Fiat.

A Siemens system is on the Peugeot 307 since 2001. Siemens pioneered piezohydraulic injectors — units that improve vastly on the precision and speed available from today's typical hydraulic/solenoid injectors. In less than 18 months, the supplier went from ground-zero to production of 2.5 million injectors annually.

Bosch replyed to the newcomers in mid-2001 with its second-generation common rail, with injection pressure taken up to 1,600 bars.

In 2003, Magneti Marelli began producing its new generation common rail, called MultiJet. Compared with the first-generation common-rail system - the UniJet system that had two fuel-injection points - the MultiJet features multiple fuel injections: there are 2 pilot injections ( before the main injection) and there is a post injection. Although the amount of fuel is burned inside the cylinder is the same, this injection in small batches allows for more gradual combustion resulting in improved performance and a 30 to 40 percent reduction in emissions. MultiJet meets Euro IV emission standards. Magneti Marelli makes the complete electronic control unit, the key element of the MultiJet diesel. To complete the engine management system, it buys fuel injectors and high-pressure pumps from Bosch.[color=#444444][/color]
Vasile26083
Fiat e un gigant care are activitati in mai multe domenii. Magneti Marelli
face parte tot din Fiat.
Asa ca daca la un moment dat divizia de automobile merge in pierdere celelalte pot sa o sustina ca sa iasa din criza.

Automobile:
Fiat
Alfa Romeo
Lancia
Ferrari
Maserati


Masini agricole:
CNH
Case
Fiat Allis
Fiat Kobelco
Kobelco
New Holland Construction
O & K
Case IH
New Holland
Steyr


Vehicole agricole:
Iveco
Iveco Showroom
Irisbus


Altele activitati:
Magneti Marelli
Comau
Teksid
Business Solutions
Itedi
James Kilowatt
In Franta toate utilajele gen buldozere, escavatoare, compresoare si alte prostii sunt Fiat-Hitachi. Nici macar nu am vazut alta marca....
G e o r g e
pai eu nu vad cum daca din grupul fiat face parte ferrari poti spune ca un albea este super masina :shock:
Iulian HondaFan
haideti sa tinem topicul asta pentru discutii referitoare la tehnologia diesel.

eu nu am nimic cu Fiat. Nu sunt sigur ca toate aceste companii sunt integrate ( ex. sunt catvea companii Mitsubishi si au ownership diferit). daca situatia ar fi asa de stabila de ce au trebuit sa se duca la GM anul trecut sa le ofere un pachet mai mare de actiuni in schimbul unei infuzii de capital?

progresele in tehnologia diesel sunt insa in buna masura legate de idei lansate initial de Fiat. dar cu o floare nu se face primavara.
James Kilowatt
Poate se face primavara.... cu o schimbare de management. Opel a reusit, si acum e cea mai fiabila companie europeana, dupa ultimul top. Fiat ar trebui sa le ia exemplul. Degeaba au ingineri buni daca subcontracteaza cu toti papagalii.
Iulian HondaFan
pai, ce ii mananca este nevoia de a face reduceri de cost. cel mai usor e sa pui componente mai ieftine, dar in final asta duce la fiabilitate scazuta a produsului final, ceea ce se si intampla.

Honda si Toyota fac reducerile de cost printr-o organizare mai buna, integrarea mai multor activitati in aceeasi uzina si printr-o exceptionala metoda de a asigura livrarea componentelor la timp asa incat au eliminat aproape complet nevoia de a stoca si depozita componente. intreg lantul lor de productie a fost de la inceput ( anii 60) conceput cu gandul la eficienta, si ambele companii au incurajat angajatii sa inoveze in toate aceste aspecte. metodele lor de productie au fost adaptate inca din anii '90 de Chrysler si mai de curand de GM si Ford, desi nici ei nu au stat pe loc. Productivitatea muncii intr-o uzina Toyota, Honda si mai nou Nissan este exceptionala este top in industria de profil. Se asigura calitate a produsului finit, costuri reduse de productie si salarii de peste 10000$ pe luna pentru muncitorii uzinelor Toyota si Honda din USA spre exemplu.

Al doilea lucru care trage la fund producatorii europeni ( si FIAT are probleme mari) sunt sindicatele, planurile de pensii si asigurari sociale care sunt enorme si care rezulta intr-o proportie mult mai mare de angajati care muncesc mai deloc si sunt platiti f. bine.

Aici sta eficienta si calitatea companiilor de varf japoneze.
malin34426
Ati intrat intr-o polemica ce poate merge la infinit.
Am o singura precizare: CEI MAI BUNI INGINERI AUTO SUNT ITALIENII
Dealtfel majoritatea proiectelor bune sunt ale lor. Au o singura probelma ce intervine intre ei si finalizare : sunt latini.
James Kilowatt
welcome back, malin smile.gif
Cam asta incercam si eu sa spun laugh.gif
Vasile26083
QUOTE(G e o r g e)
pai eu nu vad cum daca din grupul fiat face parte ferrari poti spune ca un albea este super masina :shock:


George, ai tu dovezi ca albea este o masina proasta? Sau e doar o parere.
Iulian HondaFan
afirmatiile de genul asta sunt lipsite, cred, de temei: la un moment sau altul si inginerii germani, francezi, englezi, japonezi si americani ( ordinea e aleatorie) au adus contributii hotaratoare la dezvoltarea automobilului.

daca cineva se uita la cat la suta din componentele diferitelor marci sunt produse in cadrul companiei respective veti vedea ca toti iau componente si subansamble de la alte companii pana la proportii de peste 50% pentru anumite modele ( campionul la achizitionari din afara fiind GM) . Din acest punct de vedere Honda e marca cu cea mai mare proportie de componente concepute si produse intern. si nu se poate spune ca Honda nu are produse bune.
Iulian HondaFan
QUOTE(Vasile26083)
George, ai tu dovezi ca albea este o masina proasta? Sau e doar o parere.


Albea este o minune a tehnicii italiene, se vorbeste chiar ca va inlocui masina lui Schumacher cu care are in comun multe dintre componente. Eu chiar m-am gandit sa-mi comand una din Europa si sa o aduc aici in USA sa le arat eu astora ce mult pierd ca nu mai au Alfa Romeo de vreo 12 ani pe piata.
Iulian HondaFan
lasand galceava deoparte:

http://www.auto-innovations.com/actu-news/067.html

March 17, 2004
Vectra OPC study with 212 horsepower 1.9 CDTI TwinTurbo engine
After BMW and its 535d, Opel's revolutionary new twin-turbo technology represents the next major stage of development for modern passenger car diesel engines.

The Opel Vectra OPC study, which is on display in Switzerland for the first time in Geneva, is powered by a 1.9 liter, 156 kW (212 hp) CDTI twin-turbo engine, which produces maximum torque of 400 Nm from as low as 1400 rpm. :shock: With this engine the Vectra OPC needs no more than 6.5 seconds to sprint from zero to 100 km/h. Top speed is limited electronically to 250 km/h, while fuel consumption in the European test cycle is only six liters per 100 kilometers. In addition, the 1.9 CDTI twin-turbo already meets the Euro 4 emissions standard.

The key to this trend-setting twin-turbo diesel technology is its two gas turbo-chargers which, unlike bi-turbo technology, boost the engine serially (two-stage) instead of parallel. A small, fast responding turbo-charger is responsible for lower rpms while a larger high flow rate turbo-charger kicks in at higher rpms. Its efficiency enables the twin-turbo to delivery an extremely high specific performance without the need to accept any fuel consumption or emission behaviour disadvantages.

O fi deja pe piata motorul asta ( sau Vectra asta)?

pe hartie motorul asta pare super. :headbang:
Johnny_Bravo
Da, aceasta masina exista insa costa foarte mult.

PS. Are culoarea albastra.
James Kilowatt
Nu spune nimic de injectie... e DI; common rail, multijet, carburator laugh.gif

... sunt curios daca e inrudit cu multijetul de la Fiat
Johnny_Bravo
Commonrail parca. Am citit acum cateva luni intr-o revista ceva despre masina asta.
Happy_Maker
Eu am auzit de prin primavara de masina asta si de atunci tot caut ceva concret pe aceasta tema, dar nu exista!

Si primul lucru pe care as vrea sa-l aflu este ...pretul! :oops:
eugen37925
helllllllp am un vw passat CL turbo disel 1600 din anul 1990 si am bagat ulei si uneva dispare !!! ce este problema ???? sar putea sa fie dus TURBO da masina merge perfect !!
AAA da si cati litrii de ulei trebuie la motor pus eu am pus 3,5L
trimitetim pls un raspuns pe djcontrol@home.ro :scratch: :?: :!:
Iulian HondaFan
FIAT a anuntat un nou motor Multijet de 2.4l si 200CP care va fi disponibil pe noul model Croma programat sa fie lansat anul acesta pe piata europeana.
Senator
Vectra OPC 1.9CDTI TwinTurbo a fost prezentat pentru prima oara in 2003 la Essen Motorshow , in 2004 fiind prezentat la salonul auto de la Geneva si in aceasta vara isi va face debutul in productia de serie. Puctul de plecare pentru aceasta motorizare e 1.9 CDTI 16V cu 150 de CP.Ca o curiozitate sistemul bi-turbo folosit nu este unul conventional cu turbinele legate in paralel , legarea acestora fiind facuta in serie iar declansarea se face "in cascada" cu o presiune maxima de supraalimentare de 3 bari. Motorizarea va fi disponibila cel mai devreme in luna august , odata cu facelift-ul Vectrei C.

Se pare ca va fi o vara fierbinte pentru Opel , in afara de Vectra OPC CDTI isi va face debutul si Astra GTC-OPC cu motorizarea de 2.0 Turbo si 240 de CP. :headbang:
James Kilowatt
Dar de noul diesel minune de la Honda ce se mai aude?
Iulian HondaFan
de la Honda se aude ca vor avea un nou diesel de conceptie proprie la anul pentru noul Civic 8, care va inlocui CDTi-ul de 1.7 care provine de la uzina Isuzu din Polonia...

si ca iCDTi-ul de 2.2 va intra de anul acesta si pe CR-V.

pentru amatorii de detalii tehnice ale motoarelor ( "motorheads" tongue.gif ):

http://www.hondauk-media.co.uk/protected/p.../ictdi/pack.htm

si un film:

http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2003-4030226_1a/
Iulian HondaFan
iata o comparatie intre diferitele modele diesel pe piata europeana:

Turisme medii cu motoare I4 diesel [consum mediu(l/100 km), acceleratie 0-100 km/h (s) si viteza maxima (km/h)]

Alfa Romeo 156 2,4 JTD 175CP [6,6; 8,3; 225]

Audi A4 2.0 TDI 140CP [ 5,7; 9,7; 212]

BMW320 150CP [5,7; 8,9; 219]

Ford Mondeo 2.2 TDCi 155CP [6,1; 8,7; 220]

Honda Accord 2.2 i-CTDi 140CP [5,4; 9,4; 209]

Mercedes-Benz C 220 CDI 150CP [6,1; 10,1; 224]

Opel Vectra 1.9 CDTI 150CP [5,8; 9,8; 217]

Renault Laguna 2.2 dCi 150CP [6,3; 9,8; 216]

SEAT Toledo 2.0 TDI 140CP [5,8; 10,0; 201]

Toyota Avensis 2.2 D-4D 177CP [6,1; 8,7; 226]

In concluzie: Alfa 156, BMW320, Mondeo si noua Avensis cu 2,2 D-4D stau cel mai bine, dar noul JTDM de 2,4 de pe Alfa 159 se anunta cu 200CP si acelasi cuplu mamut 400Nm...
James Kilowatt
Si multijetul biturbo de la Opel/Fiat de 1.9 se anunta ca va sparge in materie de performante.... 1.9L si peste 200CP.

Smecherii de la alfa anunta in curand un V6 de 3L 24 V multijet de 300CP. Sunt nebuni la cap... or sa puna diesel pe ferrari?!

Marius, ai idee daca noul diesel de la Honda intra si pe civic sau ramane doar pe Accord?
Iulian HondaFan
pai am zis mai sus... pt. Civic va apare un diesel mai mic de 1,6-1,8l iar actualul 2,2iCTDi este deja pe Accord si CR-V.
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