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Stabilitatea masinii

This topic is about Stabilitatea masinii, the author, sorin37756, wrote about: Stabilitatea masinii depinde si de raportul dintre latimea si inaltimea masinii. Doar dupa acest criteriu stabilitatea unor marci creste astfel: Matiz ... To read more just scroll down

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sorin37756
post Apr 12 2005, 10:08 AM
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Stabilitatea masinii depinde si de raportul dintre latimea si inaltimea masinii. Doar dupa acest criteriu stabilitatea unor marci creste astfel: Matiz, Panda, Punto, Albea, Logan, Clio, Dacia 1400, Snova, Fiesta.
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madalina
post Apr 12 2005, 10:21 AM
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Iar problema de discutat este...?

OT: alea-s modele de masini, nu marci de masini :wave:
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Lucas
post Apr 13 2005, 12:18 AM
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Si inca un criteriu foarte important este suspensia. Cu cat mai tare(sport) si mai joasa(aici intra dinamica in joc)cu atat mai bine pentru stabilitate. Si jentile sunt nu criteriu foarte important. Cu cat mai late cu atat mai bine(in limita posibilitatilor masinii).

MADALINA, CA SI TINE NICI EU NU STIU DESPRE CE ESTE VORBA IN TOPICUL ACESTA dar mi-am spus si eu parerea.


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sorin37756
post Apr 13 2005, 09:25 AM
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QUOTE(madalina)
Iar problema de discutat este...?

OT: alea-s modele de masini, nu marci de masini :wave:


Exact, cineva a avut suficienta imaginatie.
Ar mai fi de discutat, de ce romanii au fabricat modele de Dacia din ce in ce mai instabile, desi viteza maxima a crescut? Este mai comercial sa lansezi o masina mai inalta, daca se poate si lata, sa stie rumanu' pe ce da banii? Matiz nu are o caroserie potrivita pentru viteza lui...
Apropo, cum ati tras concluzia ca sunt sofer incepator si cum e mai bine sa fii incepator bun sau avansat mai putin bun, din punctul de vedere al participantilor la trafic?
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eddie
post Apr 13 2005, 10:00 AM
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Pai romanii fabrica masini inalte ca sa nu rupa si sa sparga tot ce e pe dedesubt soferii prin drumurile autohtone....logic,nu?Cred ca ar fi pline service-urile din motivul asta?!


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eddie
post Apr 13 2005, 10:02 AM
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QUOTE(sorin37756)
Apropo, CUM ATI TRAS CONCLUZIA CA SUNT SOFER INCEPATOR, si CUM E MAI BINE , SA FI INCEPATOR BUN SAU AVANSAT MAI PUTIN BUN, DIN PUNCTUL DE VEDERE AL PARTENERILOR DE TRAFIC?

Cel mai bine sa ai experienta,dar in acelasi timp sa fi cu mult bun simt la volan.


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madalina
post Apr 13 2005, 10:03 AM
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Sorin, esti sofer incepator .... pe Forum. In functie de numarul de posturi, fiecare primeste un anumit "calificativ". Acestea nu au nici-o relevanta, insa.

Nu mai scrie exclusiv cu majuscule! data viitoare iti dau avertisment!
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eddie
post Apr 13 2005, 10:04 AM
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Sorin cred ca se referea la trafic real,nu la experienta de pe forum....


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madalina
post Apr 13 2005, 10:11 AM
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"Apropo cum ati tras concluzia ca sunt sofer incepator?...."

Ca el a crezut ca noi suntem clarvazatori si stim ca este sofer incepator si in trafic , este altceva...
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James Kilowatt
post Apr 13 2005, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE(sorin37756)
Stabilitatea masinii depinde si de raportul dintre latimea si inaltimea masinii. Doar dupa acest criteriu stabilitatea unor marci creste astfel: Matiz, Panda, Punto, Albea, Logan, Clio, Dacia 1400, Snova, Fiesta.



Stabilitatea e data de raportul dintre latimea masinii si pozitia centrului de greutate, nu intaltime. Cativa cm de tabla in plus nu schimba radical pozitia centrului de greutate, asa ca e foarte inselatoare aproximarea la ochi. Cativa cm la garda de exemplu, sau o amplasare neinspirata a motorului sunt mult mai importante. Inaltimea masinii da cel mult sensibilitatea la vant lateral.
Si la asta se mai adauga si suspensia, la care Dacia 1400 e la furat.... Clasamentul ala e foarte aproximativ. De exemplu, intre clio si punto eu unul nu am sesizat nici o diferenta in favoarea clioului... De Dacii, nici nu mai spun. Cu logan inca nu am mers insa am dubii ca e mai slab decat 1400.
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eddie
post Apr 13 2005, 10:35 AM
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Apropos de stabilitatea la vantul lateral,va pot spune ca am avut un Tico care statea mai bine pe sosea la vant puternic lateral decat Zafira care o am acum.Asta din cauza inaltimii.Trebuie sa mergi cu deriva la vant tot timpul,zici ca esti in avion sau pe vapor....Va dati seama ca si Loganul la caroseria aia gigant si mai usoara cu 33% decat Zafira e la fel de instabila pe vant lateral puternic,daca nu si mai instabila....Ma intreb de ce pana acum nu am vazut decat un Logan care mergea si el cu 150 km/h de croaziera,era din AG si avea spoiler,putin mai pus la punct.Solentze alearga de mananca pamantul,SuperNove la fel.Va las pe voi sa trageti concluzia....


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sorin37756
post Apr 13 2005, 03:07 PM
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QUOTE(madalina)
Sorin, esti sofer incepator .... pe Forum. In functie de numarul de posturi, fiecare primeste un anumit "calificativ". Acestea nu au nici-o relevanta, insa.

Nu mai scrie exclusiv cu majuscule! data viitoare iti dau avertisment!


Oricum prejudiciul de imagine s-a produs. Ai un avertisment. Sunt si asa prea multi moderatori! Glumeam!
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Nicolae43346
post Apr 13 2005, 03:26 PM
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eu tot nu inteleg care e topicul discutat, nu vazui nici o introducere, nimika...ciudat


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eddie
post Apr 13 2005, 03:34 PM
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Vezi sus de tot,scrie:STABILITATEA MASINII !


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Sebastian-58
post Apr 14 2005, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE(eddie33)
Apropos de stabilitatea la vantul lateral,va pot spune ca am avut un Tico care statea mai bine pe sosea la vant puternic lateral decat Zafira care o am acum.Asta din cauza inaltimii.Trebuie sa mergi cu deriva la vant tot timpul,zici ca esti in avion sau pe vapor....Va dati seama ca si Loganul la caroseria aia gigant si mai usoara cu 33% decat Zafira e la fel de instabila pe vant lateral puternic,daca nu si mai instabila....Ma intreb de ce pana acum nu am vazut decat un Logan care mergea si el cu 150 km/h de croaziera,era din AG si avea spoiler,putin mai pus la punct.Solentze alearga de mananca pamantul,SuperNove la fel.Va las pe voi sa trageti concluzia....


Apropo de Logan, prima oara cand am condus Logan au fost vreo 15 km, si am constatat doar stabilitatea sub asteptari in curbe... Insa sapt trecuta, am condus un Logan pret de vreo 400 km, si pot sa va spun ca nu numai in curbe este instabila, ci si pe drum drept (ajutata de mici hopuri).
Intre Arad si Oradea este un drum destul de nasol, dar spre exemplu un Matiz la 140 km/h a fost mai stabil decat un Logan la aceeasi viteza... Si asta spune multe...
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rafaello5
post Apr 15 2005, 05:53 PM
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Raportul de care este vorba este putin relativ.Conteaza mult distributia maselor pe punti (ideal 50%-50%).Daca o masina are mai multa greutate in fata atunci pe viraje are tendinta subviratoare.La fel daca suspensiile sunt rigide masina este mai precisa in manevrare si nu se balangane.La fel cu cat este mai jos centrul de greutate cu atat ea va putea rula cu viteze mai mare atacand virajele cu mai multa usurinta la viteze mari.Conteaza mult si tipul de suspensie, ma refer la arhitectura ei.Daca stiti masinile sport au de obicei suspensii de tip patrulater deformabil pentru o pozitie a rotii cat mai perpendiculara pe asfalt in conditii de rulare la limita.La fel ampatamentul este si el important: daca are o valoare mai mare atunci masina va fi stabila pe viraje dar si mai usor de controlat in conditii de utilizare la limita.La fel si garda la sol, etc.
Sunt multe lucruri de luat in considerare pentru ca o masina sa fie stabila.
La Logan pentru puntea fata s-a utilizat o suspensie tip McPherson, cu legatura tip „os de peste“, preluata de la Clio II, iar pentru puntea spate o bara de torsiune cu sectiune in H, combinata cu arcuri elicoidele si amortizoare.Asta este un compromis de care nu prea este bine sa se abuze.Masina nu prea este stabile la viteze mari si nici garda la sol nu o ajuta.In conditi de rulare cu 130-140 Km la ora sta binisor.
La Soleza si SuperNova cam la fel este suspensia dar garda la sol este putin mai mica si caroseria nu este asa de inalta si asta este un factor covarsitor in stabilitatea lor.
Sorin ai facut la inceput un top.Nu stiu daca este cel bun.Ar trebui luate in vedere toate datele pe care le-am scris si dupaia sa vedem.Cred oricum ca dacia 1400 este cam pe primele locuri(adica din cele mai nestabile) din cauza suspensiei, ampatamentului prea mic dar si a rigiditatii caroseriei "care nu prea este" ca sa citez un personaj celebru.
Cei care fac masini in ultimul timp iau in considerare cam tot cea ce am scris eu pe aici si chiar mai mult(mai adauca si coeficiente de aoridinamica, apasarea masinii la fiteze mari,etc) dar ei se gandesc mai intai sa nu se rastoarne le viraje, apoi sa fie cat mai usor de manevrat in conditiile cand apare un eveniment neprevazut (franare brusca, evitare a unui obstacol,etc), apoi in caz de accident sa protezeje ocupantii masinii, si nu in ultimul rand pretuil care trebuie sa il plateasca cumparatorul ptr toate astea.Mai se asigura si de finisare,in interior si exterior, dar asta este offtopic.
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HalbaSus
post Apr 15 2005, 06:44 PM
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O chestie despre care nu prea s-a vorbit este talonul cauciucului (defapt nu doar talonul, ci toate proprietatile acestuia: latime, profil, uzura, etc) care afecteaza ENORM stabilitatea.

Opelul meu avea cauciucuri stock: 185/70/r14 uzate rau de tot... masina desi are suspensii destul de tari, o garda la sol rezonabila, masele relativ bine distribuite, era cam "barcuta" in curbe (se inclina ca o motocicleta... ma rog... nu chiar dar aproape). Dupa ce am schimbat cauciucurile cu unele de Michelin Pilot 195/50/R15 stabilitatea s-a imbunatatit DRASTIC... zici ca nu mai e aceasi masina... nu-mi venea sa cred (desi stiam ca ajuta talonul mai jos). Dupa parerea mea o supernova cu cauciucurile mele s-ar descurca onorabil din punct de vedere al stabilitatii...

O alta problema cu loganul e ca degeaba schimbi suspensia fata nu ai rezolvat nimic (defapt e posibil sa fi inrautatit situatia avand in vedere ca masina va sta "oblic")... barele de torsiune trebuie schimbate... ma rog... e destul de dificil sa faci loganul stabil...

Motivul: "trebuie sa aiba garda de masina de teren pt drumurile din romania" mi se pare total inacceptabil... prefer sa dau cu masina in gropi si sa mi se sparga baia de ulei decat sa ma trezesc in copaci. Pana si SUV-urile moderne incep sa "coboare" (deoarece in majoritatea timpului sunt folosite pe asfalt - se poate observa tendinta de scadere a garzii la sol a SUV-urilor). O garda la sol inalta e necesara la off-roadere... ori dacia e vanduta pe post de masina de familie... nu ar trebui sa fie siguranta un criteriu primordial ???


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VECTOR
post Apr 16 2005, 08:49 AM
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daca stabilitatea ar depinde doar de inaltime si latime,atunci am vedea numai tiruri rasturnate pe toate drumurile. asa cum a spus si MR mult mai important este centrul de greutate,iar la tiruri acesta este situat destul de jos permitandu-le sa ramana pe 4 roti,asta deoarece partea superioara (cusca) smile.gif este in general facuta din panza sau tabla si este mai usoara decat partea inferiara unde este motorul,rezervorul,rotile si ce o mai fi pe acolo.asa ca in acest caz centrul de greutate nu mai coincide cu centrul geometric ci se afla mai jos.la fel se aplica lucrurile si in cazul loganului si matizului (cred eu).
bineinteles ca mai exista si exceptii,cum ar fi tupeul unor soferi care se cred prea buni,pentru ca chiar ieri am trecut pe langa un tir rasturnat perpendicular pe sosea ,in timp ce cabina ajunsese in casa ghinionistului care si-a construit casa in curba (in basarabi,Jud.Constanta)


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post Feb 2 2018, 04:31 AM
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+Quote Post
kakakaoo
post Jun 2 2018, 04:16 AM
Post #20


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